Wow. Maybe YOU should take a trip - to Saudi Arabia or Iran. It's like you haven't even read anything I've written. Or if you have, you skimmed over it quickly without giving any of my points serious consideration. There's no talking with you. Just go on with your angry rants against Israel and America. Maybe someday soon we'll fall, like the Soviets, British and French before us, and China and their Muslim allies will dominate the world, Israel will be destroyed, millions more Jews will be slaughtered, and we'll all have to live under Chinese and/or Muslim domination, probably as slaves. I guess you'll be a very happy guy on that day, since we're the bad guys, so we deserve it, right? I'm done here. "LOL"

PA: LOL,you obviously haven't been to Israel lately,lol.
Or,at least since 1967.
Otherwise you wouldn't be SAYING THAT for sure.
Maybe you should take a trip too?
You won't forget it,though you'll WANT to.
And as for the "thousands of years"?
That's gone,over,finished,kaput.History.
Just like WW2 amd the Cold War.
The present is here and the future awaits.
Take off the rose-colored glasses and mask of mythology.
Israeli Political zionists...."Simple Jewish people",lol.
I must tell my Jewish friends that.They'll laugh their socks off,lol.
When they've stopped laughing at the remarks made by Bibi Netanyahu at the UN yesterday!lol.
And I hope when you refer to "anti-semitism" you include Arabs under that suffering?
Peace,Salaam,Shalom.

"If you get chance,go to the Rafah Crossing too for an idea of what Israel can do to simple Arab people."

Alternatively, you could go there to see what thousands of years of anti-Semitism and 70+ years of terrorism can do to simple Jewish people.

Hey statesman,Good to hear from you.I thought you'd hit the global road already!lol.Thought you'd be half-way round the Hindu Kush by now,LOL.Or the Ganges!
Egypt,good for you!
Glad to hear you're going to Egypt and Giza etc.
You won't forget it. The sunsets will etch into your soul.
The history there is phenomenal,the people very welcoming and humorous and life-loving.
If you're going to scale a pyramid at Giza,go REALLY early morning before it's too hot and the camels get mean and bitchy.lol.Lots of water too(don't buy it at Giza,they'll charge you a fortune)bottled,from the local shop.
If you're a tourist,you'll get hassled a lot,at first,but stay patient,it's just business in a very POOR COUNTRY.Don't take anything valuable too.
Take a Nile trip down to Luxor,if you get time and chance too,if you're going for 2-3 months that's great.Time to travel,rest and talk,spend time with the people .
Cairo is wonderful,but crazy and bustling mad but that's part of the North African atmosphere.You should travel across North Africa some time too.
If you get chance,go to the Rafah Crossing too for an idea of what Israel can do to simple Arab people.
Listen,watch,smell,taste and absorb it all.The Egyptian people are great fun,even though many have a hard life,they still love life.
Have a great time and keep a diary.
If you use a E-Cafe there,send us a message from the Queen of the Nile.
Oh! And one more thing,don't forget some diarrhoea/cramp tablets,until your stomach gets settled, LOL.
Bon Voyage and have fun!
Peace,Salaam,Shalom.

P.S. Eh Grass, I think I am starting to post as long as you lol

Well, I guess you're right. We actually seem to agree much more than we disagree. You probably realize that I'm also very much an independent thinker - being left, right or center depending on the issue.

But I really do think Islam is an exceptionally evil worldview - a hateful, murderous, warmongering, totalitarian political ideology masquerading as a "peaceful religion". Remember that Mohammad was a trader and a warrior - entirely unlike Buddha or Jesus, for example. From the beginning Islam was more political than religious; a blue-print for world conquest and domination of all humanity according to a monstrous god's inhuman laws, enforced by cruel and terrifying punishments.

The first Muslims made incredible "progress" towards that goal in just a few decades, and even more in the first few hundred years - conquering and destroying the ancient cultures of Persia, Mesopotamia, the Levant, Egypt and North Africa, in the process murdering, raping, enslaving and forcibly converting millions. Eventually they ran into lands they couldn't conquer at the time (France, China, Russian Siberia, the deep jungle of interior Africa) and turned inward and against each other and went into a long stagnation and decline to the point that they were eventually almost completely conquered and colonized by European countries. Only Turkey, Iran, Afghanistan and what is now Saudi Arabia escaped actual colonization; the first two saw the rise of native reformers who undertook to secularize and modernize their countries, much as the colonial powers did in the rest of the Muslim world. This was a GOOD trend, not a bad one. Islamic law was replaced with secular Western legal systems. Women were given rights. They could leave their homes without a male relative escort and without hiding their beauty under some black ghost outfit (and without violent retribution for breaking these Muslim laws). Girls could go to school and develop their minds and characters. People became interested in learning from the West to develop their culture and economy and raise their standard of living.

But Islam has been slowly rising again. First the European powers bankrupted each other in WWI and WWII and thus lost control of their colonies. Then the new governments of these ex-colonies "nationalized" (stole) the oil industries built by agreement on their soil by the British and other Westerners. For decades now Russia and the West have been transferring modern weaponry, tactics and intelligence to their respective "allies" in the Muslim world. And since the "Islamic revolution" in Iran (1979) and the creation of the "mujahideen freedom fighters" in Afghanistan to fight invading Russia (subsequently turned against us, probably by the Russians and/or Chinese) - real Islam has seen a major renaissance all over the Muslim world - thus all the jihadi terrorism all over the world, directed at not just Israel, not just America, but against non-Muslims of all kinds, all over the world. Real Muslims are slowly gaining power in every Muslim country - even formerly moderate, secular, progressive societies such as Turkey, Indonesia and Malaysia.

There is a turning away from the West and everything it stands for: secularism, freedom, human rights, progress. Instead, the new ideal is the barbaric culture and society of 6th century Arabia, which Mohammad codified in the Koran and prescribed for all of humanity for all time.

You criticize America for being too Christian - "almost theocratic" - and I agree with you. But it amazes me that people can't see that Islam is far, far WORSE! If you dislike American evangelical/pentecostal/fundamentalist Christinsanity, you should positively fear and HATE Islam (not "all Muslims" - please note this important distinction). Whereas Christians want to restrict porn, Muslims want to make sure you never see anything of any woman except her face and hands, or maybe just her eyes and hands. The only exceptions are your own female relatives in your own home, whom you are free to murder if they ever "dishonor" you by, for instance, having a lover, or even the appearance of one. Whereas Christians want to keep gay people from marrying, Muslims want to stone gay people to death in a public orgy of hatred and blood-lust. Whereas Christians want to force kids in public schools to pray, Muslims want to ban schools altogether for girls and teach only Arabic, the Koran, sharia and jihad to boys. Christians want to prevent pre-marital sex, teen pregnancies and the many abortions that follow; Muslims want arranged marriage for 9 year old girls, the better to pump out more good Muslim breeders and jihadis just as soon as physically possible, because that's what Mohammad did, and all Muslims are told to emulate the life of Mohammad as much as possible, since he was the perfect Muslim.

Now let me explain the important difference between "all Muslims" as you say (the nice, warm, perfectly reasonable Westernized "Muslims" you know and like) and ISLAM itself, and the REAL Muslims who actually practice it. I make a huge distinction between the two.

As I said before, almost every Muslim society went through a period of secularization, modernization and Westernization (in sum, de-Islamization), either under Western colonial powers like Britain, France, Italy and the Netherlands, or under native enlightened despots like Mustafa Kemal Attaturk in Turkey or the Pahlavi shahs of Iran. The "Muslims" you know are the product of that Westernized culture. They are essentially Western, NOT Muslim. Real Muslims don't make friends with non-Muslims. It's forbidden in the Koran itself. The Koran also forbids Muslims from living in non-Muslim lands. So clearly it's impossible for the people you know to be real Muslims.

The truth is that the jihadi "terrorists" are not "extremists", but rather the real Muslims, simply following what the Koran tells them. The reality is that Islam ITSELF is inherently extremist, hateful and violent. It's not that real Muslims are wild animals - no. They are very polite and civil 99% of the time - much more so than Westerners, in fact. But they believe that "peace" can only be achieved by rigorously following Islamic law ("god's law"). (And those are not laws that you and I would ever want to live under.) And they believe those laws have to be enforced with the cruel and inhuman punishments prescribed by god in the Koran, and eventually imposed on all of humanity for there to be genuine world peace. This is what they mean by "Islam is a peaceful religion". It means "we want peace, and we can all have it if you will just submit to god and his laws as we do".

Now - why do your "Muslim" friends even call themselves Muslim? Partly because they themselves don't read the Koran, and don't know how extreme their "religion" really is. And partly because of a general cultural chauvinism which maintains that Islam is the best religion. But most importantly, because of the death penalty. Yeah - Islam prescribes the death penalty for any Muslim who converts to another religion, or who simply renounces Islam, or even questions Islam (blasphemy). And no, this is not just theoretical - many people are murdered or executed all over the Muslim world for exercising their inherent human rights to freedom of religion and freedom of speech. So what many Muslims do is they simply turn away from Islam without renouncing it, and try to live a normal life.

In other words - your so-called "Muslim" friends are good people in spite of Islam, not because of it. They are decent human beings because they are human beings first, and most human beings are decent. I'm sure most members of the Nazi party were perfectly decent, normal people who didn't personally hate anyone, wouldn't think of personally killing anyone, etc., but just wanted their country to be strong and respected again. That doesn't mean that Nazism is benign. In the same way, your "good Muslim friends" don't mean that Islam is benign.

So when I said "stick it to the Muslims", I meant the real Muslims - the "terrorists". Is that "Islamophobic"? Sure, but that's a good thing. Every human being should fear and hate any worldview as hateful, violent and inhuman as Islam.

You're right - religion isn't entirely bad. Even Islam has some good points - very little problem with alcoholism, drunken violence, accidents caused by drunks, liver disease, sexually transmitted diseases, unwanted children, divorce, or crime. (But these good points don't mean that Islam as a whole is good or even tolerable.) And secularism alone is no guarantee of goodness - just look at Nazism and Communism.

But it's a mistake to say that all religions are morally-equivalent, all basically good, and that all religions have a few "extremists" who don't really represent that religion. Because truthfully, there are big differences. The Muslim "extremist" is actually just doing what his holy book tells him to do, and what Muslims have always done throughout history. I'm not going to speak for Christinsanity and Judaism, because to me they are too similar to Islam for comfort. But ask yourself this: have you ever heard of a "Buddhist extremist"? And if not, why is that? Could it be that the religion itself doesn't lend itself to violence in any way? What would a "Buddhist extremist" do, anyway? Sit and meditate for days on end until he starved to death? Or perhaps feed himself to a "poor hungry tiger"? I bet you've never heard of a "Baha'i extremist" either. Baha'i is probably the most beautiful, enlightened religions in the world, right up there with Unitarianism, but it is also one of the most hated and violently persecuted by Muslims, because they consider it a "heretical" movement away from Islam.

Hello Grassroots. Figured i would drop in and see what is going on. College life has kept me away from posting every now and then, but I will take some time to drop my two cents if you do not mind.

What I find interesting about world politics is that a lot of people in this country generalize what is going on in the world. Or better yet they prefer to put everyone into one basket. I assume that it makes looking at things from an analytical standpoint more easier. This is nothing new in life, but hell you would think with all of mankind's history we could learn a thing or two and not continue the cycle of evil, for lack of a better word, and try to cooperate. I think that sounds to idealistic for some though.

May I say something in all due respects to both Grass and PA and that is both of you have made some points, but in the end the people who are still in dire need are still living in dirt. Secondly this whole left/right, up/down, capitalist/socialist CRAP really needs to stop. I see nothing but the old US versus THEM scenario that has been played out through history.

Eh Grass, remember when you told me that I should go and see America from the outside before I make a career choice? Well this summer I am going to Egypt for 2-3 months. Man I cannot wait. The pyramids of Giza look awesome. Anyways...

I was reading a book and somewhere in the book they had phrases that people had said throughout history and I came across one by Ghandi. Ghandi stated "Become the change that you wish to see in the world." That phrase has been an anchor in deciding what I want to do, and it also has helped me to approach the world's problems as objectively as I can.

I must say that I read a lot so if I said that "I read" this or that, trust me I READ this or that. Anyways I have been trying to figure out mankind. Who we are and the like; why we do the things that we do and so on. I believe the answer is simple and I have had insight in finding the answer, but I believe at the ripe old age of 28 :) people are simply people.

PA, Grass is entitled to talk about who ever he wants to, and I understand where he is coming from when he "bashes" U.S. policies. 1st amendment people. And if you visit this blog from time to time then you should know that this is Grass's style in posting.

Grass, my only harp with you is that when you "bash" America, who is to blame? The "powers that be" or those that put these powers in office? What I am saying is that at the founding of this nation the social contract was valid only by our great, great, great, great ancestors way before you and I were born. As time has passed we in this country have not given over our consent to be "ruled" over, but it is through the agreement of those back in the day. YET I do say that do we still have the power to do away with our government, or is this just a subtle fantasy?

One of my poli sci professors told me that everyone in America will not "make it". This American dream ideology is just used to tame the masses. To some extent I believe what he says, but call me old fashioned when I say this but I believe that the ideas that America's founding fathers still hold some level of truth and can be applied to contemporary times.

I will say that for the sake of something positive Grass/PA do not generalize people, or at least TRY not to generalize people i.e. Muslims as this or that and even Jews/Israelis as racist, bigots and the like. THIS may be true, but some people do not respond well to this. Ahmedinejad (I think I spelled that wrong) should be a perfect example. This only creates an environment of US versus THEM and then nothing gets done in the end.

Its like the whole healthcare reform bill in Congress. If we are to stand for something in this life then STAND for it and stop talking about it. WHile people in the west are talking the people in Darfur, Congo, Gaza, Baghdad, Mexico City, Sri Lanka, and other countries of that nature are still struggling for the goddamn basics in this life. I see nothing but someone trying to argue their point with someone else.

Peace out

PA:I'm too old to be "goaded"anymore lol, and if you HAD read my post you would see that there are many things that we agree on and that I did actually answer your questions.
It seems so comical that you think I'm JUST a "leftist",lol.
My opinion and stance largely depends on the issue at hand.
Sometimes I'm left,right or center.
It completely depends on which is the best,most rational,most humane,fair,respectful solution to every different problem.
America is SO FAR Right in many States it's almost Theocratic.
In some ways as radical right as any other Nation/Faith can be,so that anyone centrist in the USA appears LEFT anyway,LOL.
But then the USA is only,colonially 200+++ years old,and was born from theological and political persecution,so that's not surprising,considering its comparative age,it's an adolescent still with acne,struggling with hormones raging.

Transfer American centrists in Western Europe for example and they appear almost conservative.
As my wife say's,Im a swinger!
I swing to whichever is the appropriate solution to each problem.
'One drug does not cure all'.
And,when I refer negatively to my country(USA)and complain, it is usually directed toward the GOVERNMENT,their policies of the time and how hypocritical,crap and ineffective they happen to be.
That's because I love my Nation and people and see them being abused by politicians and greedy corporations inside a now UNHEALTHY Capitalism,where it's 'lush' at the top and a barren wasteland of drought for 80% of the population.
That's not healthy,thriving Capitalism,that's INTENTIONAL LOOTING and EXTORTION!

My Government in the last 4-5 decades have very little to do with the voice of the people and that pisses me off,because they are there to be PUBLIC servants,paid by us and apply Democracy in practise and they do not do that ANY MORE because they receive MORE MONEY from the lobbyists than we pay them.
So instead of honest public servants to the people,may have become nothing more than political prostitutes to business and profit(usually their own which is shipped offshore to tax-free havens which does not benefit the nation as a whole).

"To stick it to the Muslims"?
That's a very strange thing to say.
A lil' bit Islamaphobic,what? Using an umbrella statement to persecute EVERYONE within that faith?
Why?
That would be like saying ALL JEWS ARE EVIL because of Israel's atrocious political policies based on a Theocratic State at the expense of all others.
Or that all Christians are evil just because of the Crusades.
You get my drift.
Every religion/Faith has it's rotten factions.
Look at Christianity,Judaism,Islam.
All the great monotheistic Faiths.
All have done appalling things to millions of people throughout the centuries,UNDER THE GUISE of 'Faith',but actually with political motive,and a background of exceptionalism,absolutism,greed,power and ego.
All the torture and other inhuman and degrading practises that the USA has participated in since 2001,is merely recycled through every era,age(old and new) and centuries past.It's not NEW but still UNFORGIVEABLE and unjustifiable.
I think it might be a good idea if you travelled the world some more,got out of the USA,for a while and see the world hands-on,and face-to-face.
Live amongst,and with the people.
Learn their cultures,from being among them and learn their languages.
For such a tiny,richly varied planet,you can travel from continent to continent and meet wonderful,extraordinary people(regardless of faith)and at the end of the day,with Government and politics out of the picture,we are all JUST THE SAME.
Just variations on the theme.No-one better than anyone else.
Just different.
Maybe you'll realise too that not only "secular" is enlightened.
Secularism/atheism etc can also be as narrow-minded and ill-informed as practising faith.
That's like saying only non-practising people can be intellectual,scientific,rational,logical etc.
It is possible to be both,as history proves.
What matters in all human beings in listening to the CONSCIENCE,soul and not tolerating anything which is just PLAIN BAD and causes pain and suffering.
The delibarate practise of causing PAIN and SUFFERING can never be justified.

Anyway,I'll leave you to read my last post.I did answer your questions,lol.
Peace,Salaam,Shalom.

Thanks for the reply, and sorry for my impatience earlier. I may not always be able to reply immediately either, so I shouldn't have goaded you like that.

You obviously feel so strongly about this that I don't think you're even capable of considering a different perspective, so I think maybe I'm wasting my time and effort.

I was going to just say "I feel sorry for you that you think your own country is so evil and monstrous". But then I realized - I'm the one who should be pitied. Your position at least puts you in solidarity with most of the world and also most of the better-educated half of the US population (because academia and 90% of the media are dominated by leftists or far-leftists. Not that the other 10% is any better - I can't even stand to listen to them anymore - they just seem so idiotic). That's gotta feel nice. Plus, you probably feel things are turning your way with the new President. (Whereas I don't think it matters one bit who's president - I think all politicians are mere puppets of The Man, and do his bidding whether or not they even realize it. I think politics is just a circus designed to fool the masses into thinking we have a real democracy, and even more so to keep us divided against each other so The Man and his regime can continue to rule.)

I, on the other hand, feel that the US, like Israel, is misunderstood and unfairly demonized by everyone. I feel like the whole world is against us, and me. I don't think the US is any worse than any other Great Power, past or present; on the contrary - I think we're better than any of them. I think the world is very lucky that the US is the world hegemon instead of Nazis & Japs, or Soviets & Chinese, or a revived Islamic Caliphate. You and I couldn't even be having this discussion under any of those regimes - one or both of us would be arrested and tortured to death. And you would see far worse "atrocities" if any of them were as powerful as the US and Israel are at the moment.

You still haven't answered most of the points I made in earlier posts, so I'll try to lay them out one more time to give you another opportunity. Even if you can't answer them this time either, won't you at least take a breath and some time to think them over?

1) Why so much hatred against Israel on behalf of the Palestinians when there are so many other people in the world who have it just as bad or worse than the Palestinians? How did you decide to obsess over just this one issue instead of the Kurds, Tibetans, Uigurs, North Koreans, Burmese, Zimbabweans, black Sudanese or all the people persecuted, oppressed, tortured killed all over the Muslim world merely because of their gender, beliefs, faith, or gender orientation? This is why I brought up the charge of anti-Semitism - because I think a lot of people use Israel as a cover for their more general jealousy and hatred of Jews. But if you really have long-time Jewish friends as you claim, I guess this explanation doesn't apply to you. But the question still stands - when, how and why did you become so obsessed with hating Israel? Is it just because our media are so focused on Israel all these decades? The media (all of it) really distort our view of the world. There is no perspective at all.

2) Why can't Jews have a country of their own? Why should they remain forever the only people who must remain in exile from their homeland for thousands of years? To this day the Muslim countries do not recognize the basic right of Jews to run their own country. It's not about the 1967 borders or the right of return, etc. - they want Israel completely destroyed. Since that's the case, and since the Muslims refused the UN offer of HALF of the land back in 1948 (much more than the 1967 borders), why shouldn't Israel go ahead and keep taking more land in the West Bank? Even if they took all of Palestine and made it Israel, it would still be a tiny little country surrounded by vicious enemies. Meanwhile, the Arabs have 21 countries of their own - mostly HUGE, and many with VAST OIL WEALTH. What's their problem? Why can't they accept the Palestinian Arabs as full citizens of their countries and let them get on with their lives, like the government of West Germany did with the German refugees from the east? Why don't they focus on developing their people and economies like the East Asian countries do instead of always trying to kill and destroy? Israel's destruction isn't going to make the lives of Muslims any better - only secular, enlightened governments, education and economic development will do that.

3) The US isn't perfect - no country is. So we have to support the lesser evil. What are the alternatives? If the US retreats from the world, other countries will expand their power and domination. The world is not some happy UN-ideal place where countries all mind their own business and get together at the UN to politely vote on stuff. It never will be. The UN, like the US political system, is a joke and a sham. It is completely powerless, and always will be. The truth is that the world is an anarchic, chaotic system where governments are in eternal competition with each other for power. When one rises, it does so at the expense of another. The Spanish, Portuguese and Dutch rose - the Muslim world fell. Britain and France rose - those 3 powers plus China fell. The US, Germany, Russia and Japan rose - Britain and France fell. The US continued to rise, and Russia fell, so that for moment, the US is the sole superpower. But that has had the effect of uniting everyone against us. China is rising. Asia in general is rising. This is the story that gets lost in our media amid all the obsession with the Middle East. Gorbachev said "The Cold War is over: Japan won". He was right. That decades long conflict exhausted both Russia and the US, while Japan and the rest of Asia enjoyed a free ride under our Pax Americana and took an ever increasing share of the world economy. Military and political power follow economic power. It seems that the US is in irreversible long-term economic decline relative to the rest of the world.

I don't know where I'm going with this. I just don't want to see a world where the US isn't preeminent. I think it would be a much, much worse world if anyone else were dominant. I don't want to live in a world dominated by Russians, East Asians or Muslims.

I think the US should be MORE assertive in the world, not less. We still have some power - we should use it wisely before we lose everything like the British did. We should learn from the Chinese. When they dominated Asia, they taxed all the countries around them. If they didn't pay the tribute, they got invaded. That's what we should do with our so-called "allies". No more free ride for Europe, Japan, South Korea, or the Gulf Arab sheikhdoms. They should pay the cost of our military which is protecting them.

Which I guess brings us back to Israel. Why should THEY get a free ride? Truthfully, I'm ambivalent about Israel. I'm not Jewish (maybe part - I'm not sure), and I'm not religious at all. I just think that every ethnic group should be allowed to have their own country. But maybe the British were right - maybe Israel was an ill-considered idea. Since it could never stand on it's own and has to be protected by the US from the entire Muslim world, maybe everyone would've been better off if the US had accepted all those Jews who immigrated to Israel. Here, they could all be doctors, lawyers and entrepreneurs, putting their brain power to good use and having much better lives, rather than screwing around trying to be socialist farmers and soldiers in the Middle East.

But I still think it's worth it to support Israel, and here's why. To stick it to the Muslims. Not the Palestinians per se - I do sympathize with those refugees. But I blame their plight more on Islam than on Israel. Jews just want their little tiny homeland so they can live in peace as Jews in a Jewish country, not as a perpetual minority always fearful of the next Inquisition, pogrom or holocaust. That's it. That's all they're asking for.

Muslims, on the other hand, want the whole world. They want to reconquer all the lands they were forced to give up (India, Spain, the Balkans and southern Italy, etc.) and then they want to conquer the rest of us for the first time and impose their inhuman "god" and his oppressive laws enforced by cruel and unusual punishments. Do you like to live under Islamic law? I know I don't.

I want the Arabs, Iranians, Pakis and all the rest to give up Islam and join the modern, secular, progressive culture the West created when it overthrew Christian despotism in the Reformation, Renaissance and Enlightenment. The only way forward towards a humane, united world is for all of humanity to embrace humanism, reason, science and progress. We'll never get there as long as Islam exists. We defeated Nazism, have almost defeated Communism, and now we must defeat Islam.

Well, at least that's my 20 cents for today. I know I don't have all the answers, and I'm still open for discussion.

PA: You really don't get it do you?
It's not a question of choice,it's a question of duty to defend all those who SUFFER TERRIBLE DISPORTIONATE PAIN,HUMILIATION,DEGRADATION,GENOCIDE,SLAUGHTER and the hands of brutal,bigotted,racist occupiers,enemies and terrorists.
I don't care what FAITH,Nationality,ethnicity they are.
BAD ARSE is BAD ARSE,and I have watched Israel for sixty++ years since the end of WW2 wreak havoc and destruction upon indigenous Arab Muslims/Christians in the Holy Land,as if they were taking ALL their hatred for the German Nazis on innocent people,civilians who had DONE NOTHING TO THEM!
I focus on my country,the USA,and its Govt policies because I love my people and Nation and feel angry and sick at how they have DRAGGED the USA into the ground legally,morally,ethically and spiritually,when I remember that it was once a proud and admirable nation,looked to as an industrial,academic,cultural MENTOR that the world wanted to emulate.
I focus on Israel and the evils of the Political Zionist-led Government because I see it turning into the fascist Nazi government that put the Jewish people and MANY MORE "non-Arians"besides,through terrible atrocities and EVERYTHING that Israel now does to all its Arab/Muslim neighbours.

Israel can only COMMIT THESE SIXTY YEARS of terrible atrocities,and WAR CRIMES/HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSE in Palestine,Lebanon,Egypt(1967),and now Gaza,BECAUSE MY Govt,since the 1950's have obeyed the Israeli Lobby and shattered our American principles for once-victims who have now turned into murderers themselves.

Without the 200 BILLION DOLLARS of my fellow Americans tax-dollars,given FREE to Israel,by my US Govt since 1967,plus the Hi-tech weapons,plus the non-interest loans and forgiven debts and my Govt's unconditional support/cover-up of Israel's horrendous WAR CRIMES,ISRAEL WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DO ANY OF THESE THINGS!
We enable Israel to commit this terrible crimes and abuses and THEN we expect the world to LIKE and RESPECT us????
I don't think so!
Since the camps in Germany were opened at the end of WW2,I supported the Jewish people and what they and others had suffered.
My Jewish friends NOW are from way back then.I have watched their and my children grow together and have children of their own. I have friends from many nations and faiths.
But since Israel has metamophosed into a rogue-nuclear,racist,bigotted MILTARY STATE,which chooses to torture,abuse,ethnically cleanse non-Jewish Arab people,to expect me to support Israel is like asking me to support scum like Bin Laden,Hitler,Pol Phot,Idi Amin,Mugabe,Stalin,the al-Saud family,the Shah of Iran OR THE RADICAL Islamists who live 1,500++ years in the past still.
I am sick of my beloved USA having a Government that supports/funds KILLERS and torturers wherever that may be in the world.
PA:I fought in WW2,you don't need to tell me about war!
What I see now,particulasrly since WW2,Korea,Vietnam,Gulf wars etc,is that what the USA is doing to others is NOT MORAL DEFENSIVE WAR.
It is US/EU CORPORATE INVASION,OCCUPATION AND LAND/RESOURCE GRABBING and involves the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians,who have DONE nothing to us,EXCEPT own resources that we DEMAND!
We(the USA and Israel)are DIVIDING and Ruling and methodically torturing with atrition other nations,as if we OWN THEM! And we have DO RIGHT to do that.
My Govt is still focused on the Cold War as if it is the time of the American Empire and Israel too,still lives back in the Cold War and thinks theyb have a "chosen" right to be 'emperors',lol.
We do NOT!
And neither does anyone else!
I supported the black people suffering from racism,apartheid and vestiges of the old slave-trade mindset in the African Nations(occupied by whites)because it was a filthy legacy of an old dead colonial past.
So I certainly WILL NOT CONDONE or support what I see the Israelis doing in Palestine,because ITS THE SAME!
A mirror-image. Israel is an APARTHEID STATE!
As long as my Govt,treats the Israeli Knesset as our 'friend' and 'ally',and allows Israel to bully us,the US needs no other enemies.
And if you think Israel is a mutually respectful,bilateral FRIEND/ALLY of America,man,you really need to study your history,politics,Government and READ and travel the world more.
And I am alarmed that you presume that Israel and the USA are united,in populations(even if our Governments are joined at the proverbial hip),and that everyone else is against 'us',by saying "the US and Israel are far more enlightened than our enemies"????
That's a very naive,narrow-minded and ill-informed presumption to make.
That's almost as ridiculous as Bush saying,"You are either with us or you're with the Terrorists" lol.
Nothing is black and white like that.
And it's also an insult to MILLIONS of good-conscience people world-wide of ALL faiths,politics,race.
The USA and Israel are separate entities,foreign from each other,and are also both leading a VERY DARK PATH right now and far from the "enlightened" and "progressive"one you speak of.
In fact our respective Govt's are behaving like the umbrella term of "savages",you so easily mentioned,which I find insulting to many of my fellow global citizens,wherever they are from and whatever faith they hold dear.
Especially when we and Israel are doing a very 'good' SAVAGE job right now TOO!
The Israeli Govt(since WW2)has always been a parasite,and WE THE HOST!

The US Govt allows Israel(which cannot survive without US money/weapons to literally get away with murder,torture,human rights abuse,collective punishment of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WHO CANNOT DEFEND THEMSELVES and are tortured,displaced,dispossessed,degraded,humiliated just because they ARE NOT JEWISH.
That is like watching my Govt defend and protect the Nazis,Stalin,Mao or any other scumbag tin-pot dictator,and that reflects VERY BADLY on my fellow American citizens,and endangers the future of Americans to come,far more than ANY paltry "terrorist"/resistance group can ever do.
I have great respect for all people of peace,whatever their faith etc,and have a hatred of hypocrisy and war-mongering by pious-sounding creatures who are closeted murderers and torturers themselves.Especially when its MY OWN Govt,because I love my nation and people and will not see another foreign nation like Israel destroy us with blackmail,bribery,back-stabbing and false cries of "Victim! Victim!",when they are the PERPETRATOR!
Until I see any Govt who supports such atrocities change their modus operandi I won't give ANY the benefit of the doubt,or any slack to them,not while innocent lives of ordinary men,women,children,sick and elderly are at stake.
America is morally,ethically and spiritually GREATER THAN THAT.
And it must respect its Constitutional Rule of Law.

Why do you think that 50 per cent of Israelis want a two-State solution?
Why do you think that thousands of good-conscience Israelis refuse to do their National Military Service?
Why do you think MILLIONS of Jews refuse to live in,or GO TO,Israel?
Because the political Zionists of Israel are no better than the Nazis who I remember well! They shame Judaism and humanity! And they are actually destroying their OWN DREAM of Israel given to them by the post WW2 super-powers(after they turned down the initial offer of being given Uganda as a Jewish home).
Why do you think the Progressive Israeli Peace Movement is growing daily,just as the progressive American Peace Movement is growing too?
It's because OUR respective Governments NO Longer speak for their people,they act and decide DESPITE the wishes of their populations,and are in the process of destroying our nations.
As a citizen,a world-travelled man,PHD academic,a patriot/Vet,spouse and parent and as a human being and a lover of life and freedom,I will not CONDONE that,and will still fight for the rights of ALL THOSE WHO SUFFER at the hands of brutes and bigots!
Happy Peace Day PA!
Peace,Salaam,Shalom.

HELLO Grassroots? I'd like an answer. Why do you focus all of your anger on Israel and your own country, the USA? We're not perfect, but why don't you realize that we are in a battle with enemies who are far, far worse than us? KGB Russia, Commie-fascist China and North Korea, Islamist Iran, al-Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. - are any of them better than the countries you focus all of your outrage against? If we don't fight them, they will dominate the world instead of us, and eventually dominate us. It's quite simple, really. How 'bout a little perspective? How 'bout giving our own country and our allies the benefit of the doubt, since we don't (and can't possibly) really know all that's going on in the world?

It may help you to separate two different things:

1) Things a country does to protect itself and preserve it's influence in the world. War is dirty - there is no way around it. War necessarily involves things like collateral damage (unavoidable), interrogation (and torture) of the enemy (to get valuable, actionable information). It also involves deceiving your enemies in order to gain advantage over them, and you can't deceive your enemies if you tell the truth in your own media, which the enemy can also read. But these things are not unique to the US or Israel. Every country with any real power to exert in the world does these things, and has to. So on these counts, we're no worse than our enemies. Actually, we're morally better, because we strive to avoid or at least minimize civilian casualties, and also try to use less damaging forms of torture than our enemies use.

2) What we're fighting for. We can't always believe the reasons governments give for why they fight, but we can still judge them based on how they treat their own people. HERE is where there is a HUGE difference between us and our enemies. HERE there is no moral equivalence whatsoever. If you believe in human dignity, human rights, freedom, democracy, gender equality, separation of church and state, etc. - then you have to admit that the US and Israel are far more enlightened and progressive than our enemies. If our enemies treat their own citizens the way they do, how do you think they'd treat us? Why would you want them to gain power in the world at our expense?

Maybe the US gov't let 9/11 happen. Nobody knows for sure. But it doesn't follow that America's enemies are better. This is a very dirty world we live in, and the US government cannot avoid getting dirty sometimes. Nor is it infallible. Every government makes some mistakes. That doesn't mean it is inherently evil and deserving of contempt.

Why did the US "flip flop" around the time of 9/11? Maybe our so-called allies, the Pakis, Saudis, Taliban, etc. flip-flopped first? Maybe they were playing a double game all along, and maybe they betrayed the US? And maybe, just maybe, they actually pulled off 9/11 without the knowledge or consent of the US government? It's possible, isn't it, that we really were attacked by genuine enemies? Maybe Al Qaeda is backed by Russia or China. We don't know!

If you're honest, you have to admit you just don't know what's going on in the world. (I know I don't). How could we possibly understand all that's going on when governments do everything in their power to keep secrets AND spread disinformation? It's not just the US government that does this - it's EVERY government! So why hate the US government? Why not give our own government the benefit of the doubt and our support?

At the very least we know that life for ordinary people is better (richer, freer, happier) in the US than it is in Russia, China, Iran or any other country that opposes us. Doesn't that say something about the US government compared to those other governments?

This is all true and 9/11 was allowed to happen. But it is long past time the American people own up to some blame for their idiotic behavior after 9/11. The government got away with murder because the people lost their balance. I watched the whole thing with eyes open, even got threatened for speaking out. I'm aiming this more at my liberal cohorts than the ain't worthy to lick my bootstraps conservatives.
I watched you guys turn fascist. So deal with it!

This also highlights the 'Democracy Now' interview with John Walker-Lindh's parents where they mentioned that Lindh was working WITH THE TALIBAN(and of course al-Qaeda who the Taliban and most of the Paki ISI protect)FOR THE USA TO FIGHT THE NORTHERN ALLIANCE.
That before 9/11 US MONEY WAS ARMING/FUNDING THE TALIBAN/al-Qaeda(through Turkey etc).

So when Lindh was picked up AFTER 9/11,he'd already been working for USA-backed Taliban/al-Qaeda against the Northern Alliance WAR-LORDS for 7 MONTHS.
After 9/11 the US govt flip-flopped and started FUNDING ARMING THE Northern Alliance war-lords like Dostum and Hekmatyar AGAINST the Taliban/al-qaeda!

Now just think!
If Bush/Cheney and the CIA had done their jobs properly and acted on incoming intel and prevented 9/11,people like John Walker Lindh would have been TREATED like PATRIOTS,for assisting the US Govt against the Northern Alliance,and BIN LADEN would STILL been getting paid by the USA through Turkey,Saudi etc.
Now Bin Laden is just getting funded by OUR OIL 'FRIENDS'Saudi Arabia and the Gulf areas to KILL US!
What an absolute MESS,by our Govt and intel services.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/7/31/760117/-Bombshell:-Bin-Laden-worked-for-US-till-9-11
Peace,Salaam,Shalom.