Hey gardener!
What makes you think THAT THE OWL will be a guy? lol
SHE could be coming VERY SOON! LOL!

You can scream bigotry all you want. The homosexuals have made their lifestyle a matter of "civil right" --which is all wrong== its a matter of morality rights--or the lack thereof. besides, I doubt you even know what bigotry really means.

We are not talking of race here==which would be a civil right==we are talking about a matter of morality.They are screaming for the rights they think they deserve is only going to help bring this country and others down.

As I have said before---where is that One World Leader hiding out?? Sometimes I can hardly wait to see him revealed...

Human beings exist not only to procreate.
Civil/Human rights for ALL is what the founding fathers intended in the constitution.
And we need to evolve as a nation, to see past the differences in others and judge only "the content of their character".
If you choose to be a bigot in your heart, that i one thing, but you cannot write that bigotry into the constitution.

Yeah, I know what you mean--I have a book that gives a few examples of the pouches.

Boy, the 'same sexer's' are really angry that they can't do kissy, kissy in from of the minister. This is pathetic, they can't admit the real reason why they want the same rights to marry as the straights---it all about money. If they are allowed to 'get married', then they will get more money and benefits from the state. These people are so consumed with their 'lifestyle', that they can't see the forest from the trees.

Whether straight or not, I can't stand people who constantly whine about their plight.

Cool! I look out for the Rancho Mirage Art Show on the web.
Rather than dreamcatchers I was thinking of miniature icon/good luck pouches.
Know what I mean?
You can hang fresh spices in them too,for air freshners etc?
I agree that no Democratic election should be called until ALL THE STATE counts are in.
And I'm not keen on the MSM interference with "CALLING" either.
The media is JUST THERE TO REPORT!
Not CALL anything to do with election counts.
If elections are called,before certain States(not "battlegrounds")are called,one can understand why citizens around the country as a whole FEEL disenfranchised,or UNIMPORTANT in the electoral machine AND DON'T BOTHER VOTING THEREAFTER!
In the next four years we HAVE to get this ridiculous,haphazardous,'State by State Rule' Electoral mess into some Federally/Nationally organised SYSTEM,that works for the National voters as a whole.
And we should have a National Voting system that includes PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION in Congress,for 3rd and 4th PARTIES etc.
Every voter has a right to have their political values represented FAIRLY.
Not settling for the best of a limited deal.
I think they should begin by having "Voting day" as a Federal Holiday attached to either side of a weekend and have voting Fri thru' Sunday.or Sat thru' Mon.night!
With the polling stations equiped with PAPER BALLOTS per head of voters+++,incase of machine failure,and ONE machine for every ?100 voters.
The stations should be staffed with properly paid/trained staff,and open 6am to 8pm.
That's not TOO MUCH to wish for,after 150 plus years,I think,since it WAS SO!
When America was a REAL Democracy lol!

Yep, I think I'll have a good crop thanks to all my new chickens brought to me through the mail from Iowa! I'm going to have a good batch of eggs by mid summer too!!

Unfortunately, I don't know how to make dream catchers--but the design I'm working on now is a bit patriotic. If I don't sell it at the Rancho Mirage Art Show next weekend, I'll put it up on the web site.

Getting back to the news! It is very interesting the voting turn out was so high, its too bad that the west coast doesn't get a full count. They were making acceptance speeches when the polls had barely closed on the west coast--and they say every vote counts--I have a hard time with that.

There IS hope for California since prop 8 was a YES finish!! Now we have to contend with all the girlie whiners. I wish we could have gotten the terminator terminated -- two more years with that jerk...

Great Day gardener!
I feel a bumper crop is coming to your garden in the spring!!!YEH!
And it was a great night,to watch AMERICA CHOOSE its President,and for all the people to see the result of using their UNALIENABLE Right to VOTE!
To watch all those people in Chicago,around the country,and around the world,was incredible.All ages,culture,class,language,faith...
that crowd in Chicago was THE FACE OF AMERICA,and the man on the stage the present day quintessential AMERICAN,and hopefully a GREAT AMBASSADOR for US to ALL Nations on the planet.
This is A GREAT START,and will take a while to step carefully through the POLITICAL MINEFIELD of CLUSTER-BOMB POLICIES, that Bush/Cheney left scattered as our legacy for our children/grandchildren(and MANY thousands overseas)to walk through.
But with a GOOD,YOUNG,STRONG,PATIENT,INTELLIGENT LEADER,behind our proud American backs we can ALL do it!

Now let's start to help and support him in a participatory REAL DEMOCRACY of,by and for "WE THE PEOPLE"!
But he's GOT TO EARN HIS HISTORIC FACE ON MOUNT RUSHMORE!
Nothing comes FREE!

You should design a special beadwork art for this hopefully GREAT TIME in America!
Hey gardener! What about a small beaded dream-catcher for peoples cars,with Baracks cameo profile on?
I'll have one!

"Hope still lives.."(Kennedy)

Yahoo...! And the Yes' have it!! Oh, but the poor mis-treated homosexuals will have to continue living in sin, what will they ever do with themselves. Sniff, sniff.

That makes me think of two friends that we knew 40 years back too.
Liz and Rob,married for 20 years,two beautiful kids,happy home,average life.
EXCEPT that,for ALL THAT time Liz had known,underneath,she was gay but because of peer pressure,family pressure,her faith and local prejudices etc,had buried it underneath a lie that suited EVERYONE/THING else but herself.
So,despite a very happy 'contented' family,and hiding a lot of real feelings,and ALSO listening to friends around her sometimes use gay folks as the brunt of their jokes,she decided that when the kids left for college she would come OUT!
She even spoke to her priest first and wept over it,because she knew what the implications could be.
But she also knew that she was missing something deep in her heart,and a female friend had guessed as to her dilemma,aswell.
Liz hadn't even dated a woman but she knew,by instinct what her own physical preferences,for a partner were,and felt she had to start living by "her truth",as she put it.
I think it was THE MOST difficult thing she has ever done.
So out it all came,and you know what,her kids(after getting over the initial shock)were okay.All her friends were okay(including us),her parents were fine,after a while.
The ONLY person who could never "forgive" her was ROB!
And I think that had MORE to do with his pride.
Her family,AND HIS,were very supportive and realised that nothing that REALLY MATTERED would be lost! All the love and trust was STILL there,and Liz still loved Rob,just in a DIFFERENT way.
The kids still had their parents(although divorced).The grandparents still had their children(Liz and Rob)and there was NO APOCALYPSE there either.
And Liz eventually found a wonderful partner that she has loved dearly and lived with EVER SINCE(Rob STILL won't talk to her!)and it really hurts their kids,who are full adults NOW,themselves.
But that choice to tell people the truth and accept her,for HERSELF was a real tester. But it was the piece that was missing,and thereafter,ALL WAS WELL.
Love knows no boundaries.
Boundaries are put there by 'man'for whatever reason.

Back in the day, I knew a gay couple. Monogamous, together nearly as long as I'd been on the planet at the time (30 some years). Then one fell ill. David nursed him for the last months of his partner's life. Then he died. Now, David's partner died intestate, and his sister, who'd refused any contact with him since he'd come out sailed in and took over. David lost the house, and had no part in the funeral.

David's case is far from unique, with long term partners having no say in medical care for a loved one, no rights of property co-ownership, no rights of funerary arrangements, no rights to make a claim for common property they have contributed to.

Now, a civil partnership would have resolved that. Of course, since there were godless perverts whom god hates, there are those who say it's deserved. To me, it primitive rubbish that prevents justice for people who, despite them having a sexual proclivity I don't share and don't pretend to understand, are as valid in their existence as me or anyone here.

As a comment, civil partnerships, giving pretty much the same rights as heterosexual couples, have been enacted in England and Wales, and know what? The sun still shines, rain still falls, kids still play in parks, folks get married and settle down, I still love my wife. If there was an apocalypse, I either slept in or was inside when it went on.

the first 3 words in the constitution are: "WE THE PEOPLE"....what that means to to me is we are all equal, .....so why should the Mormen's have the right to put in millions of dollars of ads in Ca., to defeat the prop.8....why should they have a voice to say no to gay marriage....besides 50% of straight marriages end in divorce....why should any one tell anyone what they can or cannot do...declaration of ind., states we all have right to pursuit of happiness....(we just have to stop butting into other peoples business).....such pompous arrogance of some self-righteous people.....get over yourselves.....live and let live.

No, I don't think you would be thrown off here "Jagib", I have said some pretty questionable things here and they haven't thrown me off!! Thanks for voicing yourself and don't let anyone stop you from speaking your piece and telling your life story! Congrats!

The Romans and Ancient Greeks indulged in prop. 8 lifestyles... look what happened to them.

No, homos are not equal & normal people...and i am speaking from - "having been there and done that" experience. most gays are not really happy people, but 'someone' who has been traumatized, most likely very early in life by a parent or other off balanced individual. this may get me tossed off the airwaves, but i am telling the truth as i have witnessed it.

To institutionalize behavior that fundamentally will end in despair and ruin is not helping them or society or the young people who will grow up thinking 'something' is normal when it really is not.

We must learn from the past or be destine to repeat it. I am not christian far right num-skull, such a pat R. or hegee. i am one that went down that road and knows whats at the end of it.


In the beginning God put Adam and Eve in the garden, not Adam & steve.

It is better to follow the wisdom of creation/creator and man did not create this world. he just appeared in it one day.

Marriage was ACTUALLY created by man,for business and convenience first.
Man and a woman,of course,were genetically/physiologically evolved to procreate,just as pieces in a jigsaw,fit together.
I remember my granddaughter asked her dad,why men and women have "different bits" LOL!
When he stopped laughing,we could only say that humans just come with different apparatus,that does a similar job,ensuring the protection of flow!LOL!
One is OUTDOOR plumbing,one is INDOOR plumbing,but both make sure EVERYTHING flows SMOOTHLY! LOL!
I thought that was really imaginative.
She said,"but dad,what if something gets punged up?"
"Well you get the plumber IN",he said.
And it went on from there,LOL!

Marriage was merely maintainence,and variance of the species and strengthening the defense of the family 'tribe' and all it's possessions/land etc.
The Church was involved,in many areas,merely because the church WAS THE COURT TOO.
The heads of the church were THE LEGISLATORS too,but that divided MANY TRIBES and led to a lot of corruption,under the table(or altar)
Marriages were just business arrangements/agreements between tribes/families who wanted to share land,power,properties,keep the peace,and where one tribe was short of something,marriage would allow them contractual access to another tribe who had an ABUNDANCE of the same product,including stronger genes,muscle-power,health,life-expectancy,beauty and FERTILITY etc.
And somewhere along the way ROMANCE and love entered into it TOO,thank goodness!
Contractual marriages were just human deals,between extended families for property,power or PROCREATION.Bit like a SWAP-SHOP!
Not very romantic,but in ancient times (and now)people held 'romance' very LOW on the list of priorities for human/family/genetic SURVIVAL! LOL!
Marriages were also a tactic of making enemies into friends,and uniting against BIGGER enemies.If one tribe FEARED another it was easier to MARRY into it,and have an AMIABLE,if distance 'In-Law' arrangement than waging constant battles where most of the young,strong,healthy men(full of good genes)were left dead on the battlefield! LOL!
But marriages/business arrangements had to come with conditions to protect the union,like a warranty of business,such as real estate,dowry,livestock and provision of care for elderly,arms/weapons and water access.
To be "kind and respectful to everyone",includes treating them with equality.And all men and women are created equally in the eyes of God,WHATEVER their human sexual/gender preference may be.
Look at all the traditional marriages that have dissolved in pain because one partner may be gay,but under SO much familial and social/professional pressure to remain hidden.
If traditional marriages have their hidden secrets and skeletons IN THE CLOSETS!
Open the doors and let the light in!
All men and women are equal in the eyes of God,the HIGHEST POWER in the universe.
That's good enough for me,so who are we,mere subjective mortals,to judge how others should love and BE LOVED,and by WHOM?
Peace.

What I don't like is when the 'gay community' is allowed to put down the beliefs of the 'straight community' and its ok. But when the 'straight community' (also known as main-line fundamentalist), criticize the lifestyle of the 'gay community', this action becomes horrible and is called intolerable. I had to leave another forum because this was allowed to go on there.

As long as this country puts my native tribe off from being re-recognized and until I (we) receive the same 'rights' as other americans, then I do not have to accept the 'rights' of americans with alternate lifestyles and/or belief systems.

When this 'country' was 'set up' by the founding framers, they incorporated their religion into their way of wanting to run this country. Church and state has been mixed together no matter how strongly they say it isn't.