O/B,you forgot to mention that Saddams "pityful reign" was funded by us,THE USA!His palaces and PRISONS were payed for by OUR TAX-DOLLARS!
We armed him,gave him all the chemical weapons that he dropped on the Kurds,and as long as he looked like he was going to give US his oil,our Government ignored EVERYTHING his DESPOTIC lil' heart wanted to do(including his scummy sons)!
But when he decided he was going to sell oil to Europe,on the EURO instead of the Petro-dollar our oil-Corporation boys didn't LIKE THAT,so he had to go,because he'd OUTLIVED his 'puppet' usefulness. Ask Rummie! He helped PUT Saddam in such comfort. They were bestest buddies(tactically)!
As regard taking him out,I agree with you. But as soon as HE was dead,we should have PULLED OUT IN TOTUM ABSOLUTUM,and left Iraq to THE Iraqis,who would have taken care of their OWN Nation in their OWN way,as is their right!
They have been around for FAR LONGER than we have in the Middle/Near East,lol!
But hey! Don't ask me,ask the Iraqi people themselves if you want to hear the truth. Why do you think SO MANY of them are saying,on documented film/written record that they would rather GO BACK to Iraq under Saddam,than how it is NOW with America occupying it? There were NO radicals moving freely IN Iraq while he was there,he was SECULAR and wouldn't tolerate it. He HATED radicals(including Iranians radicals)because he was Nationalist secularist!
Why do you think he kept the Shia down? lol!
Iraq actually had a Democratic Government(Iraqi style)in situ. Their people had National identity,sect and faith and worshipped freely and in private.
They had jobs,homes,income,women studied at college/university,worked FREELY and all sects INTERMARRIED.
Now they have NOTHING! Shame on OUR Government for creating that mayhem!
At least we agree too that the UN is an impotent farce,when it could truly be a GREAT and neutral organization.But you forget that the UN is a PEACE-KEEPING unit,NOT AN OFFENSIVE ONE!

But O/B(or is it OBL secretly? lol) I can't believe that you said,"after the 'war',which ended in weeks,was over in Iraq.."
There never was a "war". It's ALWAYS been an enforced military occupation/invasion,in order to build US bases there and secure their oil and gas, and is STILL a work in progress,or I should say REGRESS!
And our type of 'Democracy'(in all it's wisdom)is not the type that Iraqis want!
And they have a RIGHT TO REJECT IT,if they choose(which of course they ARE doing now).
It was "just" to take Saddam out.The majority of Iraqis WERE SICK of him,sure!
And the secret services/intelligence COULD have handled THAT JOB!
BUT,everything ELSE after that was UNJUST!Including the deaths and maiming of ALL our boys and girls and ALL the Iraqi innocent civilians left dead,wounded and heartbroken.
You gotta wake up O/B,what's happening now is the USA repeating Vietnam and Cambodia! You should be able to RECOGNISE that "peacenik"! Deja Vu?

Or you would,if you took the duct tape off your peripheral vision. Just ask the Iraqi people.They'll tell you everything you NEED to know,and it will MAKE YOU WEEP!

Iraq, like Vietnam, is not as simple an issue as simple minds try to make it.
When those mass rallies took place in the late 60's the "peaceniks", (I was one of them), got their way. At what cost? Do you know about the blood bath the Communist Chinese led North brought down on those who opposed them after we left?
After the "war", which ended in weeks, was over in Iraq, the rest of the world (aka U.N.) could have stepped in and helped stabilize the country and support a democratic government. Instead they stood on the sidelines throwing stones and emboldening the terrorists, hell bent on making Iraq a US fiasco instead of a free nation.
I know Iraq was soo much better off under the heal of a blood thirsty dictator and his rapist sons. Right? If you do not know the complete truth about Sadam's pitiful reign them shame on you. If you think this (war?) has continued this long after the downfall of Sadam because of American imperialistic aims. Shame on you! If you do not realize the real blood is on the hands of the jihadists, then it is on your hands as well!
Over throwing Sadam for what ever reason was the right thing to do for the people of Iraq, as well as the security of the region. The fact that the rest of the world was content to let him go on unchecked for all those years shows what an impotent farce the UN is, and how unwilling they all are to stand up to depots until their own country is violated!

Just like with Vietnam I can see the American people,including the Vets,doing a MASS National rally on Congress soon.
And you watch.Bush is NOW talking of pulling out troops from Iraq.
You think they'll be HEADED HOME? No!
Let's see how MANY of those will get their Vet dues or just get Stop-Lossed to Afghanistan EVEN, in a blackmail that says "No extension tour of Afghanistan(IRAN), NO VET BENEFITS BABY!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK_9sI7hzAc

LOL! That's a contradiction in itself.
Liberal means open,peaceful,flexible,tolerant,mutually respectful,wide-vision,anything goes(laissez faire).
Terrorism thrives on fundamentalism,closed thinking,tunnel-vision,intolerance of OTHERS,OUR WAY OR THE HIGHWAY!

Liberal Terrorists

Ask the Iraqi people:
Ask Sami Rasouli,
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11799.htm

And remember the words of John McCAIN!
"Peace through Strength"?

May God,our children/grandchildren,the Iraqi children and grandchildren,forgive us!

Just wrong! BIG TIME! Legally,morally,ethically,spiritually,economically and SOCIALLY!
Salvage?
-All American regular forces,private mercenary armies BEGIN TO LEAVE NOW!
-America needs to REPAY the billions of bucks we owe them,INFACT THE BIG OIL-BOYS can pay it back,from their BILLIONS OF DOLLARS company PROFITS of last year,BECAUSE IT'S THEIR FAULT,and ON THEIR LIES,that Iraq was devastated,by an ILLEGAL DICTATORIAL OCCUPATION of the Bush/Cheney Government.
-We should pay for the rebuilding of their destroyed hospitals,schools and energy plants.
-Hand over the bases we have built,to THEIR FORCES,and leave,PRONTO!
-And finally, officially hand over The Green Zone to the Iraqi Government AND LEAVE.
The type of "Democracy" we have in America right now is NOT ONE I would recommend to the Iraqi people ANYWAY!
Our Governmental leaders are NOT EXACTLY GOOD MENTORS of an HONEST Democracy! LOL!
The Arabian people have been around FAR LONGER than us,and ancient history and a variety of transcient cultures have 'passed their way',shall we say,and this has made them WISER than WE EVER CAN!
There is NOTHING that America can TEACH the Iraqi people!
HOWEVER! THERE IS MUCH that we can learn from them! lol!
And God willing,if they see fit to forgive us,hopefully we can visit and exchange cultures,business and trade,and good will with them,in the future,to make up for EVERYTHING this atrocious Government has done to them and should BE IMPEACHED FOR!
Were we attacked by Iraq? NO!
Did they have WMD's? NO!
Did 9/11 warrant the deaths of 5,000++ more American lives in Iraq? NO!
Because OBL WAS ALWAYS IN Afghanistan!
Did all those innocent Iraqi men,women and children,who were NOT terrorists DESERVE to die,for DEFENDING THEIR HOMELAND against an OCCUPYER? NO WAY!

The best thing America(totally) can do for Iraq is leave with an apology,and financial RECOMPENSE,and hope and PRAY,they INVITE us back IN PEACE,AS FRIENDS,when they ARE READY!
I just pray we have NOT lost a valuable friend,in the wonderful NATION of Iraq!

Ask our returned Iraqi Veterans Against the War,and Veterans For Peace etc if they felt it was "Just" and "patriotic"?
As they enlisted and FIRST donned their uniforms still fooled by the muddle of lies spun by Congress and the media they probably DID feel it was "just" and "patriotic".Thats what they were SET UP to believe!
It didn't take THEM long to realise,bless them,that as their honourable uniforms became stained with blood,sweat and tears,and they had put their lives on the line,that it was for A BUNCH OF LIES and Corporate propoganda.
We owe Iraq immediate and TOTAL withdrawal and unconditional PEACE.
Not PEACE FOR OIL/GAS!

I don't even see it as a war. I see it a useless police-state in country that doesn't want us there, costing American's money they don't want to spend.

The talk on Iraq coming out of both party conventions is vastly different. One RNC delegate sees the Iraq war as just and patriotic: http://www.linktv.org/video/2929. Dennis Kucinich at the DNC decries the war as "based on lies", and continues to call for Bush's impeachment against the grain of the Democratic establishment: http://www.linktv.org/video/2907.
What is the U.S. future in Iraq? Is there any way to salvage the situation? And is either presidential candidate capable of healing the divide between the two viewpoints on the matter expressed in these videos?