Link TV Members
Username:
Password:

Not a Member?

Join Link TV!
Support Link TV
eNewsletters
INTERNATIONAL VOICES CONDEMN ATTACK ON GAZAN CIVILIANS.
gottaloveit
February 5, 2009
9:26 AM PST
To use an old sports term, sometimes your best defense is a good offense. Grass since the first day of the partition Israel was fighting for its lives. What would you do? I've looked into the box and what I see is the same vicious cycle OVER and OVER AGAIN. That is why I now live outside the box. Once again, WHERE IS THE PALESTINIAN MARTIN LUTHER KING?
Grassroots
February 5, 2009
9:13 AM PST
gotta:but you need to look outside the concrete wall of apartheid and the razor wire,and the roadblocks,blockade by land,sea and air.
Imagine you are existing in Gaza,imagine you are the prisoner.That you are being starved,tortured,that YOUR children are being shot in the head,chest,legs.That YOUR mother,father,family CANNOT EVEN WALK OUT OF THEIR RUBBLE-PILES(once homes),with WHITE PEACE-FLAGS,without getting blown to bits.
WHAT WOULD YOU DO? What would you do? You have OBVIOUSLY never been a POW or had your freedom taken from you.But you HAVE been well conditioned. If you did see the truth,YOU WOULDN'T be able to sleep so well,and your soul would hurt so much.
The ONLY REASON that the Palestinians KEEP RESISTING,is because they are being treated SO INHUMANELY,and SAVAGELY,by Governmental WAR CRIMINALS IN ISRAEL,and thugs in IOF uniform,who shame the soldiers CREED.
The Gazans and the West Bank Palestinians are LIVING IN CONCENTRATION CAMP CONDITIONS.They have NO FREEDOM of movement and the movement that the Israelis give them is hazardous,horrendous,sporadic,beleaguered and inhuman.
The Palestinians HAVE NO STANDING ARMY OR HI-TECH WEAPONRY,1-2 TON BOMBS,TANKS,MISSILES,CHEMICAL WEAPONS,SONIC BOMBS,FIGHTER JETS,WARSHIPS OFF THE COAST BOMBING THE BEACHES AND FISHING BOATS,FILLING THE WATER WITH OIL AND SEWAGE AND POLLUTION .
All they have is their PRIDE,DIGNITY,IDENTITY,a few stones,slings,crude home-made mortar shells(which NEVER kill hardly anyone,comparably).
If you have a dog/cat who has NEVER done a thing to hurt you,and you subject that dog to starvation,thirst,weakness,disease,PAIN,and near death/death and YOU KEEP BEATING,WHIPPING,SHOUTING,HURTING that beautiful creature,would you NOT expect it,in the end,TO TURN ROUND AND BITE YOU?
Who is at fault there?
The dog who,after being BRUTALIZED,TORTURED,STARVED,by the CRUEL 'master' of the house,turns round and bites the master IN DEFENSE OF ITSELF?
Or the owner,for INITIATING THE CRUELTY AND BRUTALITY?
I would suggest that you GO AND LIVE IN GAZA for 1-2 years and SEE IF YOU CAN TAKE such inhumane treatment. I guarantee,you will not be able to take it.
You always say,"look outside the box".
YOU,really have to go onto the other side of the iron wall and see what Israel is subjecting these Palestinian human beings,men,women,childen,elderly,sick, to.
Hamas is no angel party,and they have their SINS too.
So does the PA/Fatah/Al Aqsa Brig's,(all of these were supported by Israel remember)
But,in comparison to ISRAEL and its HORRIFIC WAR CRIMES,TORTURE,AND COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT OF THE LEBANESE/PALESTINIAN Arab/Muslims,HAMAS SURE LOOK LIKE CIVILISED,INTELLIGENT,HUMANE,ANGELS to the majority of the WORLD'S MAJORITY POPULATION.Why do you think that MILLIONS of Christians,Muslims,Jewry,Atheists,Buddhists are uniting,TOGETHER,AGAINST THE CRIMES OF ZIONIST ISRAEL?
It's because,whatever FAITH or politics they may have,THEY JUST KNOW THAT Israel is the ILLEGAL,IMMORAL,UNETHICAL,BRUTAL PERPETRATOR OF HORROR.
Everything that ANY Palestinians do(except scum bags like the Phalangists and Israeli proxy Arab groups in Lebanon),IS ALWAYS DEFENSIVE.
ISRAEL HAS ALWAYS PRACTISED OFFENSIVE AND EXTRAORDINARILY DISPROPORTIONATE KILLING AND WARFARE.
Now,they have EVEN stopped the Lebanese RELIEF ship from reaching Gaza,just like the Iranian relief ship,which ONLY PROVES that ISRAEL IS STILL INTENDING TO STARVE/METHODICALLY MURDER/ETHNICALLY CLEANSE THE PALESTINIANS INTO A GENOCIDE.
mizo
February 5, 2009
1:00 AM PST
How Israel sought to make this documentary illegal
— doing all they could to prevent the film.

People and The Land: The Story of a People Under Occupation

People and The Land airdrops viewers into the universe of an occupied people, unreeling images of a new form of apartheid based on ethnicity. Challenging U.S. foreign policy and the conventions of the documentary form itself, People and The Land examines the concrete realities of Israel's conduct in the West Bank and Gaza, the level of U.S. support for that conduct through foreign aid, and the human cost of that aid in Palestine and the U.S
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3740797934091220239
mizo
February 5, 2009
12:19 AM PST
Keep living in your own world, and jumping from subject to other refusing to have a productive talk and only throwing shaky references along the way, is it you goal to destruct any logical talk about this conflict? This is the feeling I have every time i read your answers. And also let's save some pages gatta, and quote the important point in article you like and the link to it and we will check it out as you do to our links and AGAIN and under the Bigger Picture, let's take the issue point by point, we will agree on a starting point, from the recent history or the old one and build up from there, no thread in the East and respond in the West, each one will support his or her points or logic with facts and documents and all of us have eyes to see then who wants to have a real discussion here, aren't we here for this reason???
gottaloveit
February 4, 2009
10:34 PM PST
When will the international voices condemn Hamas attacks on its own people. Oh sorry I forgot they can do what ever they want!

Part 3: The war crimes of Hamas.

If you look in the direction I have just suggested, what you see is that Hamas have been fighting in a way that endangers civilians - and I mean Palestinian, not Israeli, civilians. Those with a genuine concern for human rights have not failed to notice this. Thus, in calling for an 'impartial international investigation into allegations of serious violations of the laws of war' in the Gaza conflict, Human Rights Watch referred upfront to violations 'by Israel and Hamas'; it called - as none of the voices I have surveyed above, and the general chorus of which they are but a small sample, did - for an investigation into 'alleged violations by both sides'.

This is a matter of some importance. For it begins from a reality of the conflict which Israel's accusers have preferred to overlook, namely, that the commission of war crimes, so far from being incidental to the way Hamas fights, is integral to it; Hamas fights from within the civilian population it purports to, and to some degree does, politically represent. It fights so that its enemy, Israel, can only with maximum difficulty hit military targets - Hamas fighters or weapons or installations - without at the same time endangering Palestinian civilians. Israel is obliged, nonetheless, by the laws of war to take every step it reasonably can not to jeopardize these lives. My point is not to acquit it of that responsibility. It is, though, to emphasize that Hamas has exactly the same responsibility, one which it flouts by the very methods of self-defence it uses, methods putting 'its own' civilians at risk and leading to regular violations of the laws of war.

How could the angry chorus denouncing Israel, and only Israel, have missed this? It is unambiguous in the laws of war what Hamas's responsibilities are. Article 28 of the Fourth Geneva Convention states:

The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations.

Article 51/7 of the Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions (adopted in June 1977) specifies:

The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular in attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield, favour or impede military operations. The Parties to the conflict shall not direct the movement of the civilian population or individual civilians in order to attempt to shield military objectives from attacks or to shield military operations.

Does Hamas respect these constraints? The evidence from press reports suggests that they do not. As in Part 1, I offer merely a sample of such evidence here. There are reports like this one (also here and here) of Hamas using houses occupied by civilians as cover from which to fire on Israeli troops:

Palestinian civilians have accused Hamas of forcing them to stay in homes from which gunmen shot at Israeli soldiers during the recent hostilities in Gaza, the Italian newspaper Corriere della Sera reported Thursday.

And there are reports of their using civilian facilities for the launching of rockets:

Every day, the Hamas rocket teams sneak through the fire and fury of Gaza to launching sites concealed in tunnels, trucks, rooftops and courtyards of schools and mosques.

In similar vein, there's this from the New York Times, quoting a 'man close to Hamas':

They have more experience and they have training from Syria and Iran. They helped them rethink their strategy. They fired rockets in between the houses and covered the alleys with sheets so they could set the rockets up in five minutes without the planes seeing them. The moment they fired, they escaped, and they are very quick.

Then there's the forcible use of farms as rocket launching sites:

Members of a Gaza family whose farm was turned into a "fortress" by Hamas fighters have reported that they were helpless to stop Hamas from using them as human shields.

Again:

[H]e went on to blame Hamas fighters for causing his predicament. Israeli soldiers had bulldozed his orchard of orange and olive trees, he said. "The Israelis destroyed my orchards because Hamas was using the cover to shoot rockets.

"I asked them to stop once and was told they would shoot me in the legs as an Israeli collaborator if I asked again."

And ambulances (also here):

Palestinian civilians living in Gaza during the three-week war with Israel have spoken of the challenge of being caught between Hamas and Israeli soldiers as the radical Islamic movement that controls the Gaza strip attempted to hijack ambulances.

And hospitals.

How, I repeat, could the angry chorus denouncing Israel, and only Israel, have missed this? It is not some arcane mystery but information available to anyone who wants it. Irwin Cotler, a former Canadian justice minister and professor of law at McGill University, calls the fighting tactics of Hamas a case study in the violation of international humanitarian law:

A second war crime is when Hamas attacks [from within] civilian areas and civilian structures, whether it be an apartment building, a mosque or a hospital, in order to be immune from a response from Israel... Civilians are protected persons, and civilian areas are protected areas. Any use of a civilian infrastructure to launch bombs is itself a war crime.

Colonel Richard Kemp, who has been a senior military adviser to the Cabinet Office, says:

Hamas deploys suicide attackers including women and children, and rigs up schools and houses with booby-trap explosives. Its leaders knew as a matter of certainty this would lead to civilian casualties if there was a ground battle. Virtually every aspect of its operations is illegal under international humanitarian law - 'war crimes' in the emotive language usually reserved for the Israelis.

The same point was not lost on Louis Michel, the EU's foreign aid chief:

"Hamas has an enormous responsibility for what happened here in Gaza," said Michel, the humanitarian aid commissioner, as he stood in a United Nations aid compound damaged by an Israeli shelling. He echoed Israeli criticisms that Hamas used civilians as "human shields" by fighting in populated areas...

It was also not lost on John Holmes, the UN's Humanitarian Affairs Chief:

[He] blasted Hamas... for its "cynical" use of civilian facilities during recent hostilities in the Gaza Strip.

"The reckless and cynical use of civilian installations by Hamas and indiscriminate firing of rockets against civilian populations are clear violations of international humanitarian law," Holmes told the UN Security Council.

But lost it well and truly has been on many of Israel's denouncers, all those who have been able to see only war crimes committed by Israel but, on the very same field of battle, none of the crimes of Hamas. That suggests a different hypothesis is needed as to what has been the cause of public outrage over Gaza. It is not so much human suffering as such but human suffering in so far as Israel was responsible for it. The identical human suffering in so far as Hamas has been responsible for it - to this the denouncers seem to have been rendered blind. For it is no longer now a matter of weighing numbers of deaths and magnitude of suffering caused by Hamas's rockets in Israel against the suffering caused by Israel in Gaza. No, what we are looking at is a quantity of suffering in Gaza for which Hamas as well as Israel is responsible. By its methods of fighting Hamas virtually ensures that any military reaction from Israel will incur civilian casualties. I have already said that under the laws of war this does not clear Israel of the obligation not to deliberately target civilians or to put them recklessly in jeopardy. However, that obligation, of which Israel's one-sided critics are so well aware, rests just as squarely on the heads of Hamas, who regularly disregard it; and yet those critics somehow fail to see the obligation on the other side of the conflict or else lose their voices when it comes to saying something about its consistent violation.

It might be said here in defence of the one-sided critics that their stand is motivated by a belief that Hamas's cause is a just one whereas Israel's is not. It's not a view I share, but I'll let that pass because it isn't relevant to the issue. The laws of war, and the requirements of ius in bello (governing how one fights), oblige not only those whose cause is, putatively, unjust but also those presumed to have justice on their side. The silence over the crimes of Hamas that have brought death and disaster on the Palestinians in Gaza - just as Israel's military campaign has - is the silence of rank prejudice. Twinned with a vocal outrage against Israel, it tells us that it is not only a concern for human suffering that has been at work; a plain political animus is also present, funnelling the outrage in one direction only.

This is just a piece of the article the rest if you care: http://normblog.typepad.com/normblog/2009/02/oneeyed-in-gaza.html
mizo
February 4, 2009
8:12 PM PST
{“Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one.”

Irish civil society calls for boycott of Israel

The following letter was published in a full-page advertisement in The Irish Times on 31 January 2009:

Israel’s bombardment of Gaza killed over 1,300 Palestinians, a third of them children. Thousands have been wounded. Many victims had been taking refuge in clearly marked UN facilities.

This assault came in the wake of years of economic blockade by Israel. This blockade, which is illegal under international humanitarian law, has destroyed the Gaza economy and condemned its population to poverty. According to a World Bank report last September, “98 percent of Gaza’s industrial operations are now inactive.”

The most recent attack on Gaza is only the latest phase in Israel’s oppression of the Palestinian people and appropriation of their land.

Israel has never declared its borders. Instead, it has continuously expanded at the expense of the Palestinians. In 1948, it took over 78 percent of Palestine, an area much larger than that suggested for a Jewish state by the UN General Assembly in 1947. Contrary to international law, Israel expelled over 750,000 Palestinians from their homes. These refugees and their descendants, who now number millions, are still dispersed throughout the region. They have the right, under international law, to return to their homes. This right has been underlined by the UN General Assembly many times, starting with Resolution 194 in 1948....}
http://pulsemedia.org/2009/02/03/irish-civil-society-calls-for-boycott-of-israel/
mizo
February 4, 2009
6:14 PM PST
I always felt guilty and hypocrite when i used to go to their stores, they are every where, especially across the street from the local coffee shops. For my ignorence I didn't know about their owner pro zionist veiws, but from the day Grassroots brought the issue here I am starbucks free!! Thanks AGAIN Grassroots!
I making my own coffee again; it is pleasure when I remember that part of this effort is a statement but the most important part is to do it YOURSELF and to come back and appreciate a real cup of coffee you made!
And when going out lets discover our local coffeehouses and support them, and yes not all local businesses are good but because they are part of our community they have they duty, when we show them our concerns along side our support' to work for the community, meanwhile big corporations don't care about it.
My post far away from"INTERNATIONAL VOICES CONDEMN ATTACK ON GAZAN CIVILIANS" but in the same time I see it as part of the story, working for a better community, the one we live in, will add up to the real justice for all communities.
Grassroots
February 4, 2009
4:25 PM PST
I started boycotting CharBucks(it's usually OVER-roasted anyway)about 3 years ago in principle against Israels war crimes,and I haven't missed it YET!
In fact,many people did,and last week we found out that due to finance problems one of main stores is closing here,YEE HAA!
And we petitioned the city to give preference for the license to a LOCAL 'MOM AND POP' business(better coffee anyway).
Bye! Bye! Charbucks!
SANCTION,BOYCOTT,DIVEST AND PROSECUTE.

Peace,Salaam,Shalom.
jagib
February 4, 2009
3:57 PM PST
I've bought my last starbucks latte....

Sanction,Divest,Boycott,Prosecute...thats the way to stop israeli 'crimes against humanity.'

http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-starbucks.html

End israeli police state in Palestine.
Grassroots
February 4, 2009
10:58 AM PST
EGYPT STOPS WORLD PRESS GETTING INTO GAZA THROUGH RAFAH.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1061416.html
Shame on you HOSNI MUBARAK FOR SHOWING AGAIN THAT YOU ARE WILLING TO PROSTITUTE YOURSELF FOR AMERICAN MONEY and Israeli hegemony,INSTEAD OF letting the world see what Israel is doing to your INNOCENT Arabian/Muslim brothers,sisters,HUMAN BEINGS.
My Jesus,and I am sure your prophet Mohamed,amongst many others,would be ASHAMED OF YOU,for denying the TRUTH.
And this HAS NOTHING to with Secularism gaining power over Fundamentalism.
Nothing to do with SECTS.
What Israel is doing is ILLEGAL,UNETHICAL,AMORAL and YOU ARE CONDONING THAT.
Mubarak,you are a HUMAN BEING,an Arab and these INNNOCENT PEOPLE ARE ALL YOUR BLOOD.
And you SHAME THEM!


mizo
February 3, 2009
3:04 PM PST
gatta READ before answering, even the title you got it wrong, which is: "Save Darfur" is a PR Scam, they didn't say: "DARFUR is a PR scam" as you wrote.
Here is the post:

Ten Reasons Why "Save Darfur" is a PR Scam to Justify the Next US Oil and Resource Wars in Africa
http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=453&Itemid=37

And here is gatta' respond:
"So DARFUR is a PR scam. You have really stooped to new lows."


Grassroots
February 3, 2009
10:33 AM PST
South African/Western Australian Maritime/Dock workers rejecting,and refusing to offload Israeli cargo ships CARRYING ARMS which perpetuate ethnic genocide and mass murder,proxy wars,and CONSTANT TRIBAL conflicts to keep these Nations UNSTABLE,giving the US/China/Israel etc excuses to SNEAK IN and LOOT the natural resources,while INNOCENT MEN,WOMEN AND CHILDREN are murdered,cut to pieces,tortured,raped and sodomised and driven from their homes into refugee camps.
Good for them! Sanction,Divest,Boycott,Prosecute.
And good for them for REJECTING AfriCom too.The world DOES NOT need more American military bases occupying and looting their nations.
gotta,Darfur is CERTAINLY real,but it's all sanctioned by US and Israel,AND CHINA BTW,to keep their presense in and around the nation seemingly valid.
Keep "the natives" at 'war' with each other,and you have the PERFECT EXCUSE to loiter around as 'peacekeepers'(even when YOU are supplying the WEAPONS of bloodshed. The African people are used to this,iot has been going on for centuries,and STILL,ALAS,does.
Those external Governments that are screaming the biggest "OUTRAGE" about Darfur,are THOSE SAME ones who FUND the rebels and massacres(secretly of course),so that they can gain access to the natural resources,and LOOT THEM.
If you haven't seen the documentary "DARFUR NOW"(amongst many others),you really should.
The same foreign Governments who covert the natural resources of these African nations ARE THOSE who ACTUALLY PROVIDE WEAPONS,FREE,to perpetuate the in-fighting and destruction of the INDEPENDENTLY MINDED indigenous people who are ONLY TRYING TO PROTECT THEIR LAND/HOMES/LIVES.
Sound familiar?

http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/Politics/0,,2-7-12_2463533,00.html
gottaloveit
February 3, 2009
9:43 AM PST
So DARFUR is a PR scam. You have really stooped to new lows.
mizo
February 2, 2009
6:52 PM PST
Ten Reasons Why "Save Darfur" is a PR Scam to Justify the Next US Oil and Resource Wars in Africa
http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=453&Itemid=37

The real JOKE is when US and zionists talk about genocide, if your home built from glass; don't throw stones on other people homes!!!
gottaloveit
February 2, 2009
5:22 PM PST
Where's the international voices for DARFUR? Oh yea I forgot! What a joke!


February 2, 2009
"If the Darfur genocide was being carried out by Jews or Christians instead of Arab Muslims, would we see a different response?"

A Muslim blogger asked that question, wondering if more Muslims would be outraged over Darfur if the perpetrator of the genocide were different. And the answer, of course, is yes.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/024680.php